Talk:Nocturnean Confederacy (EoM)

bWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT!!! Vulkan is a jerk?! And he's bowing to a evil version of Bindamu? I was looking forward to seeing his empire as one of the NICE ones! (X_X)

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 03:19, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

He's right you know. The Salamanders were always the kindest out of all of the Legions. Furthermore I don't think it is appropriate to have the Solaris Federation pulling the string of a Primarch.

On a side note i am going to have to ask that the Xai not be part of this timeline. Supahbadmarine 03:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Out of luck. Vulkan is a tool, and Binadamu is a genocidial scientist, who's been pumping the Confederacy with advanced weaponry, with the hope of later incorporating the Nocturneans into Solaris, and destroying Holy Empire of Terra. The Nocturneans are evil, and they look it too. >:D Vivaporius 03:33, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I am afriad that is not as easy as you think. The Eternity Guide is still active. He would not allow Binadamu to manipulate things as that would go against his master plan. Supahbadmarine 03:35, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Vulkan got beaten in a contest against Binadamu. When Vulkan was about to fall into a volcano, Binadamu offered to save his life, with the exception the Vulkan and his people serve him for the rest of their lives. Vulkan, simply believing he would just recieve Binadamu's help and kill him later, agreed. He attempts to sucker punch Binadamu to death, and gets blasted across the other side of the volcano by Binadamu's timely psychic blast. Binadamu doesn't want to kill Vulkan, but simply show him his place in the "new order". Vivaporius 03:36, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

......................................................no.

-DirgeOfCerberus111 03:37, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Well unless the Eternity Guide shows his face, and conviences Vulkan that suffering on a volcanic wasteland is better than living in the technological glories of Solaris, then he'll have to come up with a good plan to do otherwise. Vivaporius 03:37, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

...............................why. Vivaporius 03:38, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

And the Salamanders are only nice because they came from the same planet as the people they were protecting. Plus, this is another timeline. Vivaporius 03:39, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, you do realize that Vulkan wopuld never sucker punch someone who beat him in an honourable challenge right? He was always the most humble and kind out of all the Primarchs. Also You do realize that I am not going to allow the Solaris Federation to become some superpower in this don't you. If they are participating in this then they get hit just as hard as everybody else. Which is also why the Xai are not taking part in this. Supahbadmarine 03:39, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

What Supa said, and...

Cause Salmanders = Nice Vulkan = Nice YOU DO THE MATH!!!

On a serious note though, EoM is straying far enough from the feel of 40k as it is, lets not TOTALLY WARP PEOPLE OUT OF CHARACTER!!!!

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 03:41, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

And if you have and rememberance of our discussion on the EoM page, then you'd know I stated that I would practice moderation. Plus, I honestly don't care about that, as I've got my own problems deal right now. And didn't we already discuss downsizing the Federation's realtime power? Vivaporius 03:42, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Out of character is the Emperor hiding when the galaxy is falling apart around him. Vivaporius 03:42, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

And remember, the Salamanders DO NOT EXIST. At all. Period. No Imperium of Man = No Salamanders. Plus, I personally didn't like the nice Salamanders, as they had all the looks of an evil chapter, but just didn't pull it off (and that I respect). Thus, that's why I'm making them not nesessarily evil but as the fluff has stated, isolationists. Vivaporius 03:45, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

It actually isn't out of character at all. he was doing that forever before he stepped out into the light. He isn't doing nothing. In fact when I start elaborating on the Great Forging you will see how active he is. he just uses subtler methods here. Supahbadmarine 03:45, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Vulkan....evil....not...possible...better chance...Angron...being cheerleader....

Big E. was doing that for thousands of years already, he just decided to stick with it.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 03:46, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

So whats to keep Vulkan from going doing the black brick road? Vivaporius 03:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

You make a point, but the Salamanders were not nice because they were from Nocturn. Every Legion drew it's members from their Primarch's homeworld. They were nice because Vulkan hammered the value of human life into their beliefs. Vulkan himself is the source of the Salamanders' virtue. Supahbadmarine 03:48, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

And how is EoM straying from 40k character? War without end, right? We are going to be pitting these empires against each other, right Supah? Please say yes. Please. Vivaporius 03:48, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Mind you I like this AT. What I was saying was that the only thing that connects it to 40k is names. Which is way I wanted space marines.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 03:50, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, point taken. But the Nocturneans were already isolationists to begin with, on top of the fact that the Dark Eldar hounded them like no body's business. So whats to say that Vulkan when a bit further is his proclamation, and stated no power would even harm Nocturne, thus causing them to become agressive isolationists? Protection through prevention. That's going to be their new motto! Vivaporius 03:51, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Absolutely. 100%. That was the idea. Though mind you any nation I make is going to have either lost their Primarch or he will be corrupted. I love the Primarchs. They're awesome, but they're too awesome. Things just seem to get unbalanced from my view. not to mention it's hard to give any attention to other heroes while they are around. Supahbadmarine 03:51, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

If they are isolationists then they would not ally with the Solaris Federation. After all the trademark of an isolationist is that they don't like others meddling in their affiars. Supahbadmarine 03:53, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I have nothing against them being isolationists. BUT THEY ARE NICE!!!! Atleast to their own. >.<

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 03:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Vulkan gets X-ed by the Eldar during an assualt on a craftworld headed towards the Confederacy, thus sending the Nocturneans into a deepened isolationist stance, destroying entire worlds that give them the slightest reason to believe they'll be a threat in the future? Vivaporius 03:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

On the point you brought up Supah. The Nocturneans are allied with Solaris after Binadamu's victory. Plus, the Xai'athi gave the Nocturneans the warp drive that allowed them to build their empire. It not so much that they want to be allied to the Xai'athi, it's more that they owe it to them (plus the Xai'athi arrived just in time before a massive earthquake killed most of the population, thus saving their civilization). Vivaporius 03:57, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Yeeeea-no. Well, I was hoping that Vulkan and Guilliman would be one of the few actually nice empires in this timeline. Seeing Vulkan dead, evil, or same with his legion just leaves a bad taste.

As for Solaris, the EG is going to leave the primarchs everything they need, right?

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 03:59, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I would have thought that he would have just left them with the plans to create super-soldiers and nothing else. Plus, I was simply expanding on Supah's point about the Primarchs needing to die or be corrupted. That's all. If you wamt a good empire, then you'll get a good empire. I'm trying to staty true to the Warhammer part. In any case, while I'd much rather prefer an isolationist empire, I'll do a slightly xenophobic one, where you've got earn their trust to get it. Vivaporius 04:03, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Plus, Vulkan wasn't going to be evil, but an overly-caution leader. Vivaporius 04:04, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for hammering on your article, its just that...Oh sue me I like nice marines. And ok, I like a little light in grimdark.

As for less nice empires, my Olympian Empire is going to be totalitarian, zero xeno tolerance, and no love for nature (forgeworlds/fortressworlds). And there will be a Nostraman Kingdom, Curze rules with absolute fairness (doesn't mean always nice) he even has a secret police.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 04:08, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

The Eternity Guide has a method to his meddling. Viva is correct that he is mostly going to leave the nations to their own devices, but he make sure to set the ground work for each nation he visited to thrive. This includes those that are not under the command of a Primarch. With the Primarchs he made sure of two things. First he made sure that every Primarch recieved a template that would give them a basic idea of how to use their genetic material to make an Astartes. naturally the Primarchs added their own individual touches. The second thing he did was to make sure that regardless of where they landed they would come in contact with a civilization that had a certain level of technology. So he might guide the exploration of a local Forgeworld toward Fenris. He also made sure that each nation knew how to make an Astronomicon Web. He does some other stuff too, but nothing that makes any nation suspect that he even exists. Supahbadmarine 04:11, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Alright then. Xenophobic Nocturneans, and a loose alliance with Solaris. The Noctureans realise the benefits of having Solaris as an ally, and request to become an ally (after Vulkan is beaten in a competition). Binadamu likes the Noctureans (as he had known one of the people that would become one of the ancestors of the Nocturneans), and allows them to join as a protectorate. The Nocturneans, with the help of the Xai'athi, expand and conquer numerous planets, and when the time was right, Binadamu lets them forge their own future (no pun intented). As a requirement of the compeition so long ago, Vulkan must still answer to Binadamu, but is free to led his people as he pleases. Vivaporius 04:21, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Really what can I do to stop you? I just wanted a nice empire or two, placing my hopes in Ultamar and good ol' Vulkan (look how well that turned out). But whatever, its your article. Just please, no evil Vulkan.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 04:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh. He won't be evil. He's just a cautious leader, with some bad experiences with outsiders in the past that have driven his motives toward the defensive. Vivaporius 04:48, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Heck, thats all I want. It was the whole sterilzing populations and destroying planets thing that got to me.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 04:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

It was simply an a colorful illistration to bring out just how xenophobic the Nocturneans were. Nothing more.Vivaporius 04:57, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Legion and Cal. I like Vulkan (the only Primarch I truely respect aside from angel boy), and would not bend him out of character just to flame people. As Cal said, have at it if that's what you want. Vivaporius 16:20, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the rage. Its just that out of the eighteen primarch empires, I wanted 2/3 to be nice. Give humanity a little hope, huh? And seeing a primarch bow to the likes of a evil bindamu is foreign to me.

But, im calling dibs on Alpharius' Empire, it will be a mobile fleet, and there will be xeno citizens. They will be nicers than others.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 16:50, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps our two forces could work together in the future? Vivaporius 17:02, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Whats to say the Dark Eldar didn't come back in greater numbers and with better weapons? Remember, Nocturne was a feudal world, meaning they didn't have any real weapons to speak of, save for their swords and hammers. So what was to keep the Dark Eldar from returning in simply culling the Nocturneans? Vivaporius 17:26, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I dont see why not. I doubt it will be a lasting alliance, more like a non-aggression pact. But im sure they'll have some ecounter with every faction.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 17:27, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

The Xai'athi are far more advanced than the Primarchs. Horus was injured by a weapon made by xenos, which was one of the factors that lead to his fall. Binadamu is smarter and stronger than Vulkan, and if the Noctureans attempted to rebell, the Xai'athi were sterilize all of their worlds. It's a linging threat to the Confederacy. Aside from being controlled by gods (the traitors that is), Binadamu bet Vulkan in a stright fight in the place of the Emperor, gaining Vulkan's allegience. Additionally, where as the Dark Eldar never returned to harm Nocturne, in this story, the Dark Eldar returned in force, and Binadamu, believing Vulkan's loyalty in question, allowed the Dark Eldar to continue slaughtering the Nocturneans. He demanded Vulkan's eternal servatitude, and Vulkan agreed, as he couldn't stop the Dark Eldar on his own. Vulkan continues to search for ways to remove himself from Binadamu's control, but he's aware that Binadamu and the Xai'athi could run right over him if he does something foolish. He wants to be free, but Binadamu's just too powerful to fight head on. Loyal in public, traitor in private. That's the story. Vivaporius 16:56, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and on a side note, I'm gonna have to ask for the Xai to be part of this timeline, since, you know, the run Solaris and all. Vivaporius 16:58, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. But I just say Vulkan and his empire must have SOME free will. If they just allied to Binadamu they might as well be in the fedaration by now. Cheers Dog of War 17:10, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry about. Vulkan is puppet state. If Binadamu wanted that territory, he would have taken it. But he is aware of the importance of the Primarchs, and allows him more leeway in his decisions than others. Vulkan makes his own choices, Binadamu simply makes sure their the right ones. Vivaporius 17:14, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

So Vulkans kinda being forced to allie to Madora? If he dosn't he gets killed? It makes sense now. Hey, how about the confederacy tried to rebel againest Madora a couple of time- Madora had the rebals crushed, but didn't know Vulkan was behind it all?Dog of War 20:44, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

You read my mind. I was thinking of a perticularly masty event which huants Vulkan's, serving as the reason he wishes to simply comply with Binadamu's orders so that his people aren't harmed again. Sort of like a war that shows to the reader why Vulkan doesn't want a full-scale rebellion against Solaris. Vivaporius 20:54, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I would warn against such harsh measures Viva. Vulkan is a man of the people. If Madora were to punish the Confederacy too harshly then Vulkan would not stand for it. Binadamu would have one angry Primarch on his hands, Hell bent on defying him. Supahbadmarine 21:32, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

In Madora hurt the people, Vulkan would know that this aint worth it.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 21:35, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

And Binadamu is a man of the Xai'athi. Unlike his more restrained self in the 40k universe, if Vulkan lefts so much as a finger against Solaris, Binadamu, the Xai'athi, their splinter groups, and several other unfriendly types will run right over Vulkan. It happened with Solaris was almost destroyed by the Imperium, and the same applies to Vulkan, Primarch or not. Vivaporius 21:42, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Rolled over: Sure.

Dosen't mean he will stand for it. If Vulkan thinks they are being treated as shit, he would go Fuck it, 50/50 shot that we die, lets do this LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMAAAAAAAAAAAAN RUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! and do it anyway. In other words: You no longer have a pet Primarch :3 217.208.69.224 21:46, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Then there can be no alliance. Vulkan would avoid fighting due to the threat of retribution, but the moment that Binadamu crossed the line and actually hurt the Confederacy Vulkan would seek to break away, even if it killed him. Supposing that Binadamu did kill him, Vulkans death would galvanize his empire. The Federation might conquer them, but there would be a never ending insurgency. I am not underestimating Binadamu here, but a scorched earth response would do more harm than good in regards to Vulkan. Supahbadmarine 21:46, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Vulkan would rather die than let his people live in eternal oppression. I'd think he'd try to take the people and get them out of there. Find somewhere safe you know? Please dont kill Vulkan!

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 21:49, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Note: That was me before Supah Legionaire22 21:50, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Understand that Binadamu, while cruel and harsh, is mindful of his actions. He knows of the Primarchs' abilities and loyalties, and thus threats them with more respect than he normally allows himself. He's not about to tick off his grestest trump card, and thus makes sure that his actions are overtly harsh when dealing with Vulkan. Punishment is fair, and Vulkan knows this. Binadamu treats him with respect, but knows that Vulkan's must still acknowledge who is the better of the two. BTW, it's more like 25/75 chance. XDVivaporius 21:50, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

And Dirge don't worry. I'm not about to kill of my favorite Primarch now. That's why I chose him in the first place. Vivaporius 21:52, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I would say it is more 10/90, but what sounds better, 50/50 or 10/90? Also, no matter what the odds, he will still (as would all primarchs and the Emprah AKA Eternity Guide) shout ALRIGHT LETS DO THIS LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN RUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! Legionaire22 21:52, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I would have it so Bindamu dosn't kill the inhabitents, but moreover malipuate them, prehaps to do a crime againest Vulkan. Vulkan would have no choice but to exile/kill them. Or give Bindamu a lighter hold on Vulkan or limit his power. That way everyones happy, right? Dog of War 21:52, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

If it is fair that is one thing, but you were talking about a massacre before. Vulkan would not stand down to a man that would treat his people like that, whether his defiance was futile or not. Supahbadmarine 21:53, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Still think he'd take the people and find somewhere far away and safe, rather than live in fear of retribution. Im sure the Fallax Republic Fleet is willing to help.

EDIT: I think what ticks people off the most is the whole agressive, and sterilizing thing that is currently written.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 21:54, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Vulkan picking up a group of his people and moving away wouldn't go unnoticed. The Akili would have alerted Binadamu, and simply allowed Vulkan to escaped, but the Noctureans left behind wouldn't fare too well under an angry Binadamu. Also, I believe that would be the cased too, on your final statement. I'll get to it later. Vivaporius 22:11, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't notice your other comments. Dog of War, I like your idea, and will implement it in the story. Supah, regardless of Vulkan's decision, Binadamu won't go ahead and start killing his people, all too aware of the backlashes. Finally, Legion, unless the EG comes with an army, going up against Bin and his cronies is better said than dome. Just my personal opinion. Vivaporius 22:19, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

EG could show up powers ablazing and tell madora to GTFA from his son or face his wrath? -DirgeOfCerberus111 22:21, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Sure Viva. Just one thing though. Do you really think that a genuin good guy like Vulkan would do anything but get pissed if Binadamu were to punish his people just to make a point to him? This is referencing a previous comment of your about Binadamu being harsh to keep Vulkan in his place. Supahbadmarine 22:24, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

He could try, but he'd have to get past the Vashti, from what history shows that psykers and blanks don't mix to well. As for your statement Supah, I'm man enough to acknowledge my statement there. But Vulkan gave his services to Binadamu, and its not his safty he's concerned about as you mentioned, but his peoples. If he is killed, then the Nocturneans will suffer, regardless of they try to fight or not. Thus, he unwillingly serves Binadamu, knowing that the aftermath following his death would be far worse for his people, rather than his indenturement to Binadamu. Its the lesser of two evils really. Vivaporius 22:43, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Theres got to be a breaking point. Vulkans is a primarch and the most caring of them all. He would not want his people to live in terror of retribution for eternity. They traded fear of Dark Eldar for fear of Madora. At one point he is going to say enough is enough. Doesnt mean they can fight and win. But Vulkans going to pull something off to save them.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 22:53, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I do understand that, but that would also mean that while Binadamu could do whatever he wants to Vulkan, he would have to use kid gloves with the Nocturnian people. It may be true that it may be the lesser of two evils, but you have to admit that Vulkan would gladly choose the greater of the two if he had to choose between that, and serving someone he believes would abuse his people. Even in the main timeline where almost all heroes still sit in shades of grey, Vulkan and the Salamanders have always been proper good guys. They are the only Chapter in Canon that fights to defend the people, and not the Imperium itself. Supahbadmarine 22:54, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, Vulkan CANNOT accept this unless you totally warp his character.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 22:57, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I'm aware of Vulkan's character, but Binadamu let's the Noctureans do as they please, but when they are needed, it is a minor issue that Vulkan will let pass. If major incident pops up, I have no doubt that Vulkan would rebel, but the current relations between Bin and Vulkan are stable. Vulkan does what he wants, Binadamu let's him. The Akili keep their eyes on Vulkan, and when needed, remind him who's in charge. Should the time come, Vulkan and Binadamu will become enemies, but their current standing with each other is for purposes, fine. Vivaporius 23:04, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I can understand that arrangment, but if the Akili were to target Vulkan's people in order to show him who is in charge, then he would put his foot down. Any form of overt tyranny on the Federation's part would not be tolerated, of this I have no doubt. Supahbadmarine 23:09, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, one false move (or if the Akili pushes a kid down and laughs) Vulkan gonna rage, death or no death.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 23:11, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Likewise. But I believe that I confused you when I spoke of the Akili. They don't harm the people, they just remind Vulkan of who his loyalty belongs, kinda like having having your parents hovering over you to make sure you get your chores done. Doesn't mean your going to go behind their backs and do something else when their not looking though. Vivaporius 23:14, December 7, 2011 (UTC)