Talk:Xai'athi

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i thought that i would let you know that technically these guys are Abhumans and not Xenos. Supahbadmarine 18:17, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. How would I classify them for the wiki then?

Well, first I would remove the Xeno Species tag. Then I would add them to the Abhuman category. Supahbadmarine 21:02, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Right. On it.

Sorry. Vivaporius 20:26 February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry. Everybody makes that mistake at some point or other. Just try and remember as often as possible. --Lither My talk 02:26, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

This is a rather overpowered statement "no Xai'athi has ever fallen to Chaos in the Xai'athi's recorded history". All races with any psychic potential are susceptible no matter what training or mindset they possess. Only a race which is Soulless or has an extremely low Psychic presence can truly resist the temptations of Chaos. And the the thing with the Ruinous Powers is: if you do not know they exist- you can unwittingly be drawn to them; If you do know they exist- they can still lure you. Chaos is very fickle, and no matter what precautions you take, you can still fall to them. And, as the old saying goes "The road to evil is paved with good intentions". The Eldar, who know of the dangers of the Warp and are highly trained to resist it's temptations, have lost some of their people to the sways of the Ruinous Powers (like Ahra, the former Phoenix Lord of the Striking Scorpions). A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 16:50, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, hows about instead of saying no Xai'athi has ever fallen to Chaos, there has been no recorded instance of such an ocurrence? Vivaporius 17:03, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

If there is no recorded instance then the Akili are not doing their jobs right.

Actually Supah, if their are no recorded instances of it happening, the Akili are doing their job perfectly (you know, by whitewashing history ;-) ). On a more serious note, perhaps falling to chaos is just an incredibly rare occurrence for the Xai'athi, like it is for the Eldar, that it is not common knowledge. Just a thought. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 01:29, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

That's the idea I was going for. The Xai'athi had the luck of running into and controlling the Eldar very early on in their history, and got into learning about the Warp and it's perils. As a result of this knowledge, those Xai'athi who passed on this knowledge (save for the information relating to the Chaos Gods), were able to help train the first Xai'athi psykers in a manner that would make possession or corruption very rare. As for the Akili, well, they've got a good track record, and that's all anyone (all three of them), know. Vivaporius 01:38, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Still, I would not try to supress Chaos to that extent in their fluff. After all Chaos is a great plot device. Supahbadmarine 01:42, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, their good and all, but I'm not a fan of possession of any sort, and it kinda defeats the purpose of them having a warp realm with gods that fight back daemonic incursions into the Kukunja. In my opinion of course. I did have in the works Ghinjo's Empire, one of the Amara and his twin sister who lead Khorne and Slaanesh hoards into battle, though neither have given themselves over to the two gods, but are seen as favorable enough to lead their warriors into battle, don't know if that's canon yet, and will do some research. Vivaporius 01:49, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Chaos Undivided champions lead warbands of all 4 chaos gods so it should work. Or you could have them call Furies into battle and what not. And there are Inquisitors who fight demons with other demons so yep its possible. Bluebeard2 02:07, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but when you supress the possibility for Chaos that much you shut the door on splinter factions dedicated to it. These kinds of factions often improve the primary Faction as they create conflict, and open the possibility for very unique forces. Also the Eldar protect themselves by being extremely conservative and disciplined. They have become stoic to the point where corruption rarely happens. This is not possible for the Xai'athi as events like those in the Tribulation era would never have happened. The Eldars transformation from the hedonistic Eldar Empire into the current Craftworld Eldar in analogous to hardcore Catholics taking over the world. Supahbadmarine 02:19, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

What a second, what? I got the part about the Eldar being conservative and stuff, but Catholics and world domination? Vivaporius 02:23, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Pretty much. After all reckless pleasure seeking is basically illegal among the Craftworlds now. Supahbadmarine 02:25, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

The Vashti would be more in line with hardcore, super Catholics, and have banned all please seeking not permitted or condemmed in their Bible. The Kordanians are the children of super criminals, and they have no such thing as laws, and as such would be more on the lines of the Eldar right before the Fall. The Kordanians are psychic, but have crushed it down to the point where daemonic possession is pointless, as their free will will automatically override any form of possession. If you don't understand this, I understand, I just blurted out all of my thoughts out in a single post. Sorry. Vivaporius 02:30, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

It is no problem. In fact I support it. Facts and other important aspects of our articles that are not specifically mentioned in our articles are often brought to light on these talk pages. Really that is what they are for. sort of a think tank for specific articles. Anyway i would like to point out that there is a lot of room for corruption in the Solaris Federation, both Chaotic in nature and otherwise. Supahbadmarine 02:33, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Hense the point of the Kordanians. Where as the Nexusians show the highest moral point the Xai'athi have gotten, the Kordanians are the lowest, and run the massive criminal underworld of the Federation. Vivaporius 02:40, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Quite true. I would also like to point out that not all Chaotic corruption happens against the persons will. Often people make pacts with the Dark Gods in order to gain power. I know that the Federation is generally a good place, but you have a bad batch in any group. Supahbadmarine 02:42, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yup. The Nexusians have the Draconians, the Awali have Ghinjo and Idrissa, and the Nokemono have their Daughters of Yurei. All serve Chaos in some form or another, though they don't actually show it (except Ghinjo and Ibada, who have legions of daemonic warriors). Vivaporius 02:46, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I would write about those groups in detail if I were you. They would go along way towards improving the fluff. Supahbadmarine 02:48, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

And I shall, no doubt about that. Vivaporius 02:52, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

A good place to do it might be the Society section of the Solaris Federation. You could make a sub-section called Renegades that details the various deviant groups within the Federation. Supahbadmarine 02:55, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I'll get to work on it ASAP. I'm suprised that the Xai'athi have expanded to this size. I was only trying to add a black species to 40k, since in the girm future that is the 41st Millineium, black people don't exist. Har. Vivaporius 02:58, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Black people don't exist? Then what the hell are the Salamanders!? I have been lied to! Supahbadmarine 03:00, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I knew you'd mention them, and have prepared a simple response. Corrupted gene-seed and intense radiation. Nuff' said. Vivaporius 03:07, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think you have misunderstood what the "Warp Shadows" are. They are not other dimensions within the Warp, but potential areas of the Immaterium which could exist where their are other galaxies (which may have sentient life) and areas of Warpspace that may continue elsewhere, far from our galaxy, which do not harbour daemons due to a lack of sentient life to feed the Warp. This means that the realm you have invented for the Xai'athi contradicts the canon. Unless you can provide a source which states otherwise, it would seem that your "Warp Shadow" could not exist within any part of the Milky Way Galaxy. You do not need a separate "special area" for the Xai'athi Gods as they could easily exist within their own realms within the Warp as many other minor deities do (the Eldar Gods existed within the Immaterium until Slaaneshi came along). A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 18:46, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

My mistake. -_- Vivaporius 18:50, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

The Kukunja isn't a special area for the Xai'athi, so much as it is an area that is defended by a pantheon of Xai'athi gods (born from the ancient beliefs of the Xai'athi). Becuase of this, their gods favour the Xai'athi over other species, and prevent souls from other races from entering, that is unless they were one of their worshippers. Vivaporius 18:54, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

It's all right Viva, we all make mistakes. ;) I made lots of errors in regards to the Warp when I first wrote the Syrath the Immortal article (like I though Greater Daemons could be banished to the materium and that mortals could visit the Chaos realms... -_- ). Each of the Xai'athi Gods could have their own personal realm or they could share one. Their are almost endless possibilities with the Warp as it is such a bizarre realm. And their is also large swathes of the Warp which make up The Formless Wastes, which are not controlled by any of the Chaos Gods. These areas can be influenced by other powerful Warp Entities (Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes, Minor Deities etc.) ... A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 19:09, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I remember reading the Syrath article when I first came here. Anyway, Kukunga is both a realm controlled by all of the Xai'athi gods, who have their own personal dominions spread across it. I don't want to compare 40k to RL, but here I go. The Kukunga is much like the United States in the 1800s, in which all states were part of the U.S., but were left to their own affairs (if I'm wrong, then I've failed U.S. history completely). Likewise, all of the gods have their own little empire where their followers go when they die, but anwser to the top dog in the Kukunga, which would be the supreme deity Mulungu. Vivaporius 19:18, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Pretty good. Supahbadmarine 23:37, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. Vivaporius 23:46, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I just had an idea. You have said before that genetic manipulation is an important part of the Xai'athi. What if there were a kind of criminal that took this to an unhealthy extreme. I am not talking about a splinter group, but rather an actual class of criminals within the Federation. Supahbadmarine 23:48, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Those would be the Kordanians. I've really thought this through. Vivaporius 23:50, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

They've altered their genetic code to the point where the Xai'athi actually classified them as a completely different breed of Xai'athi. To send the point home, these guys are the kids of Xai'athi criminals, which means one would expect them to have been like any other Xai'athi born into an inter-racial family. However, the Kordanians, having access to the genetic knowledge that is commonplace in Xai'athi society, exploited this to help claw their way to the top of their gang. Their genetic junkies in a way. Vivaporius 23:54, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

There's one thing I almost forgot about the Formless Wastes. While they are free from the influence of the Chaos Gods, Chaos Furies still lurk within these areas, searching for prey. They could make up a (very) small peril within the Realm of the Xai'athi Gods. Or, they could just have been eradicated (they can't really be enslaved) A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:03, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

I've read about them, and I'm quite pleased that their just fantasy. I will hope that the Xai'athi Gods simply wiped them out. I could probably tie that in with a possible story taking place around their creation, in which after their births, the Xai'athi Gods began a campaign to remove any outside influences in their new domain. Vivaporius 00:05, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean by "just fantasy"? They are part of 40k as well. Fury. They're rather odd creatures but I guess their existence explains what happen to the souls of followers of true Chaos (unless Syrath gets 'em first). A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:14, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I used the wrong term. Vivaporius 00:15, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. Perhapsody some malignant entities have began to form within their area of the Warp as a direct result of the cruel twisted souls of the Kordanians and the evil acts which they preform. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:21, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense, considering the fact that though the Kordanians don't so their psychic powers, their very acts are endangering the Kukunja realm. If they do get out of hand, the Xai'athi gods may have their followers deal with them. I think I'll give the Kordanians their own god. Vivaporius 00:24, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

There is something kind of ironic about a race of (what are essentially) "Pariahs"/"Blanks" (ie. the Vashti) having Warp formed Gods... you know, since Soulless beings don't have souls that need to be saved... and how they have no presence in the Warp to begin with... A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 22:41, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

I know about that. I made them remember? The Frumman are psykers, as are the Dementi. The Frumman are the clergymen of the Vashti, they provide the power to their gods. There's far more to it, but I'm got a bad case of gas and don't have the strength to explain right now. TMI, I know. -_- Vivaporius 01:09, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

A small number of beings would have close to no impact on the Immaterium whatsoever. And all of the Soulless beings which surround them would most likely cancel out any Warp presence. If you are trying to give what are essentially a race of Pariah's Warp formed Gods, while excusing it by changing a sub-breed which were implied to have been Pariah's to "Powerful Psykers", then you are dangerously close to falling into the pitfalls of The Hive Fleet Effect. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 18:37, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

There are trillions of Xai'athi. 120 trillion to be exact. There were trillion of Eldar who over 60 million years created their own gods. Now, for the Vashti. There are around 40 trillion of them. The Frumman are very numerous, because their the priest, bishops, cardinals, and clegymen of the Vashti. The Vashti are a very, very religious race, which is why there are so many Frumman. The Vashti have been carrying out their worship for 40,000 years, and over that period of time, the psychics of the Vashti (the Frumman and Dementi), have slowly been giving power to the gods the Vashti had been worshipping for over 40,000 years. These gods, like Slaanesh (but to a lower degree), had been around for quite some time, but were not sentient. When the most powerful psykers of the Vashti gave their psychic energy over to the Warp, topped off by the collective prayers of trillions of Vashti, the two Vashti gods were born. Now so you know, the Vashti weren't the only ones with Christian beliefs. There were the Zverians and some Awali (since Orthodox and Coptic are just variations of Christiandom as a whole, like Catholism). However, since the Vashti are far larger than the Zverians in population, and the Awali followed another god in the place of Dieu (Mulungu), Dieu and Lucifier adopted the Vashti as their patron race, with the Zverians as their second (since the Zverians are based off of Communist Russia, which in real life banned almost all religions in the 50s). Thus the Zverians faith is powerful enough to garner the attention of the two gods. Long story short (haha I know), the sacrifices of the Vashti clergymen simply pumped in that first heartbeat needed to awaken their gods, while the trillions of Vashti nuns and priest simply feed the warp entities that would become Dieu and Lucifier the psyker energy needed to feed them. Vivaporius 19:08, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah. I never stated that the Frumman were pariahs, only that the vast majority of the Vashti were. The Frumman, like the Imperium, maintain countless shrine worlds, which are inhabited by Frumman priest and Dementi nuns. There they carry out endless surmons and prayers which feed their gods, pretty much in the same way sex, pain, and vice fed Slaanesh, or senseless murder feds Khorne. Vivaporius 19:11, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

First of all: The Eldar Gods did not form the way in which you believe (and use as justification for any of the Xai'athi Gods having formed). Their gods existed at the time which the race had developed. All of the Eldar Gods are the children of Isha and Kuronous (except for them of course -_-). Before the violent war between the Eldar and Khaine (which nearly led to the destruction of the Eldar Race) which is called the War in Heaven (not to mistaken for the other War in Heaven), "there was no barrier between gods and mortals - the deities walked among the Eldar, teaching them and leading them in an age of peace and prosperity". Second: ALL races which commit any of the acts which are representative the Gods of Chaos, feed the respective deities power, with humanity being at the fore. And lastly, (this is not a criticism but an observation) there remains a scenario not even Binadmu Madora could ever prepare for (due to Eldar accounts of the Necrons and the C'tan being sketchy), is the fact that the Vashti would be a dream come true for the Star Gods. Any being carrying the Pariah Gene can be transformed into a Necron Pariah, so any Vashti encounters with the Necrons would be a complete disaster. It is also an eventuality which cannot be prevented in fact, it is reckoned that the Culexes Assassins eventually become Necron Pariahs... A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 20:00, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

After much research and thinking, I have concluded that, as explained on the 40k wiki, that Pariahs become servents of the C'tan after their captured by the Necrons. Unless they transform into Necron slaves in their sleep, I have found no evidence that they'd lose the Necron War aganist the woefully outnumbered Necrons. I'll certainly download a Necron Codex to back up my defence if any.

As for the Xai'athi Gods (and I don't need the Eldar Gods as my justification, BTW ^.^), as Supah explained, whereas the Chaos Gods are made up of one emotion or another, other gods are projections of their species minds upon the Warp specifically. And that others were powerful warp constructs created by the Old Ones. Simply put, the Xai'athi Gods are projections of the Xai'athi's minds, and their spiritual beliefs. It is that faith which gives their gods power, much in the same way as the Sisters of Battle gain power through their faith in the Emperor (may be wrong about that part).

That is all. I rest my case. -_- Vivaporius 20:52, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. However, as with your relevant example of the Sisters of Battle drawing power from their faith, I think that the Vashti Gods would more likely not need to be Warp formed manifestations, but the "Divine Avatars" of the Vashti. Ie. it would be their extreme zealous faith which provides them with miraculous powers, akin to the servants of the Ecclesiarchy, not some Warp Manifestation. Also, Soulless beings are actually invisible to fully Psychic beings (Daemons; Gods), so while the Frumman and Dementi could hope to receive gifts from a Warp Being, the rest of the Vashti could not. Also, you have still not considered the catastrophic effects of Necrons encountering the Vashti... A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 21:12, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I have considered the results of the Vashti encountering the Necrons, which is why they fought with the Necrons in a secret war that led to their creation of numerous types of weapons and technology. As for the Divine Avatars, I already had something in the works for that. Similar to the Living Saints, except their far more powerful and are far more prevelent. Also, the gifts given to the Frummen and Dementi are used to help the Vashti as a whole (like blessings that are used by the Frummen to bolster the Vashti in battle). Vivaporius 22:09, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

FYI, the Eldar did not just "forget" how to make sections of Webway. ALL records of how it was constructed were destroyed during the fall or lost on the Crone Worlds (now beautiful Daemon Worlds which lie within the Eye of Terror). Therefore, the Xai'athi could simply not "delve" into that are of technology. For example, the Emperor THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE CANON HUMAN was effectively 'hacking' into the Webway through the gate he found on Terra. Second, ALL accurate accounts of Eldar History lie within the Black Library or upon some of the Eldar Craftworlds. Again, the Xai'athi could not simply just delve into it. The Xai'athi are NCF if they can somehow surpass Eldar technology in anyway. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 10:40, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

1. The Black Library contains only the knowledge of the Chaos Gods, and forbidden Eldar lore (sorcery and the likes).

2. The Xai'athi gained the knowledge on how to build Webway gates from the Eldar science vessel that crashed on their homeworld in M5, millineia before the Fall.

3. The Emperor, as smart as he was, was still using inferior technology in comparison to the Xai'athi. He was trying to activate the Webway gate by use of technology humanity had at it's height (or so I've been able to learn from the Codex).

4. Finally, by "delve", I mean the Xai'athi were trying to comprehend as much as they could understand at the time. One good example is their discovery of Nodespace. They barely even know how it works, even 28,000 years later since it's discover in M12, they barely have an understanding on it. Only Idrissa knows more about it. Vivaporius 19:41, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Idrissa could not have fled to the Stamnis as it is IMPOSSIBLE for mortal beings to survive within ANY area of the Warp. Only Daemons can survive within it without being within a protected spacecraft. On a similar note, a planet could not exist within the warp and be habitable to non-Daemons. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 16:56, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Huh. I'm going to explain very slowly why it is possible. The Necron pylons on Cadia, you know about thoses right? They are reason the Cadia Gate exist, since they nullify the Warp around the planet. Now, I've stated that the race that lived on the planet Idrissa and his followers control, where covered in powerful anti-Warp artifacts (maybe I'll tie it into the War in Heaven one day). These artifacts prevent the Chaos Gods from influncing it or the people living on it. Also, further down in the Technology section, the ships built by the Xai'athi are naturally immune to the effects of the Warp for reasons unknown (maybe I'll expand on that too). Plus, there are numerous instances of mortals and immortals flying into the Warp (one Leman Russ for example), and accounts of planets located in the Warp also, and accounts of their populations surviving on them too, though abeit with the loss of their minds of course. I could go on about how possible all these things are, but I believe I've proven my point for now. Vivaporius 23:41, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

Viva I would like to point out that the Eye of Terror is not the Warp. It is an area of Warp Space, which is when the Warp bleeds out into reality. It is still ankored in Real Space, which is why mortals can survive there. The same goes for Daemon worlds and all the planet located in a Warp Rift like the Eye of Terror or the Maelstrom. People can not survive in the Warp proper. Supahbadmarine 00:05, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Now I shall state my point again. As quoted in the article, "The Maadui sorcerers hailing from the world of Kizee Sanaa, located within the Najisi Warp Rift". Need I say anything else? Vivaporius 00:18, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for that lecture, which does not actually have any relevance towards surviving within the Warp. Now, and I quote directly from the article, "fled into the warp rift the Staminis, or the warp shadow that the Xai'athi are bound to,". You have A. Stated that the Staminis is an area within the Warp. If you want them to have ended up on a planet near a Warp Rift (connected in some way to the Staminis) then you should have stated it thusly: "fled to a planet which lay in close proximity to a Staminis Warp Rift". And B. In order to avoid contradictions of the canon and your own explainations, you need to change " warp shadow " to "area within the Warp" or something similar. The Eye of Terror cannot be used as the basis for any similar effects as it is unique (due to it's colossal size). And, as Supah has already mentioned, the Eye of Terror is an area where the Warp and Realspace blend together. It is not truly the Warp, nor is it the materium. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 22:30, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I must have passed up some of the areas from previous edits when I was trying to fix everything when I got a better understanding of the Warp shadows a few weeks ago. I mentioned that the Maadui homeworld in located within a warp rift, but must have forgotten to check the entire article for any areas pinning them to a warp shadow. As for my lecture, it had complete relevence, as it was based off a misunderstanding. I thought I fixed the article (as mentioned), but you were looking at an area I must have missed. I'll start fixing it now. My bad.

Oh yes, I thought I made it clear that the Staminis was an area of the Warp already? Vivaporius 05:44, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I fixed the section pertaining to the warp shadows. Sorry, I quoted my defense from the problem area I was trying to defend. I'm starting to slip up. I haven't slept in two days. Vivaporius 05:47, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Just thought I would point out that Orks do not use Bolters.

Thank you. Vivaporius 19:26, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Try to get some sleep Viva, all that time awake is bad for you (I know, I spent close on 63 hours awake during the three days before my art portfolio had to be handed in). I'll need you to be in top form for when I broach my next collaboration idea to you. ;D A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 20:00, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh. I don't even know where to start with you two. I'm not going to put this in a sig bubble for reason that shall soon be made clear. Here we go once more.

I have never stated that they pawned the Eldar. Where you read that continues to elude me. The Vashti have to be CAPTURED by the Necrons, to be turned into the Pariah we loath and fear. They don't just grow nercondermis and pull a weapon out of thin air. Next, as for the terraforming, they can do that, as it is fully possible to change the enivorment on such a scale. Also, if you'd read between the lines, you'd notice I haven't stated just how many planets they've changed. The only planets that have gone through the process are the Core Worlds, which I will elaborate at another time.

The Xai'athi aren't immue to Chaos. Read it. Grasp it. Understand It. Become one with it. I...NEVER...SAID...THEY...WERE...IMMUNE! I did said that Chaos would have difficulty corrupting them, as their gods see their souls as rightfully theirs, much in the same way Slaanesh claims all Eldar souls as his own. Plus, the only Xai'athi that exceed the Eldar in their own field are the Nexusians. BUT, this comes at the cost for all the wonderful perks, like surviving a shot in chest, which if they tried would die. Because they can't survive getting blasted in the ribs.

Now, as for their homegrown threats. It makes perfect sense, as the people leading those threats are the people who were once responsible for stopping them. Idrissa was a member of the Akili, and thus knew everything there was to know about Solaris, it's military, people, technology, and every other little thing that would make him the greatest poker player in the galaxy. However, he has no interest in dealing with them, since his attention is elsewhere. Think of it this way. The Imperium wants Solaris. It really, really wants Solaris. However, their not the Tau. They can't just push them over and take what they want. Why? Xai'athi technology makes the Imperium's Emperor Titan look like a three year old's macoroni picture. Plus, the Imperium would be entering an entirely diffenrent universe, as the Xai'athi have completely changed that area's view on the galaxy. To make matters worse, the moment the Imperium sets foot in Xai'athi space, they are OUTSIDE of the Astronomican. They have a greater difficulty navigating through the Federation, while the Xai'athi warships fly circles around them. The Imperium almost destroyed the Federation during the Great Solar War, and again during the Perseus Crusades (that's plural).

As for the Orks, the Xai'athi been fighting them for as long as they can remember. While the worlds of the Xai'athi are free of Orks, the worlds outside of the Federation are not. It is from these worlds that Waagh!!!s your mothers never seen originate from. In fact, if you check out the military part of the Solaris article, there is mention of how an Ork Waagh! lead to the Kijeshi's military reforms, since they got curb-stomped not once, not twice, not even three times. Five times the Kijeshi was backhandded. The wars I've placed on the site are the most notable ones. The Xai'athi haven't won ever war they've fought. The First Eldar Conflict was a disaster, and is in the Kaizari article, the Necron War was a victory because the Vashti had superior numbers, but some of their people were transformed into pariahs. However, since it was secret war, that knowledge never made it to the Federation proper. Operation: Reaper Storm was only a success because the Akili was directing the attacks on recently weakened areas of the Imperium.

Genestealer infection is impossible simply because the nanites were designed to transform any child from another race into Xai'athi, negating the Genestealer's attack. As for pwning the Eldar, that's because the Eldar are psychic, and the Vahti are not. The Vashti have numbers, the Eldar do not. The Vashti mass-produce weapons that could split entire worlds in half, while as far as I know, the Eldar cannot. The Xai'athi lost the First Eldar Conflict because 1., they weren't psychic yet, 2., the Vashti weren't pariahs yet (M16), 3., when requested to aid the Xai'athi in their conflict with the Eldar, which theoritically would have tipped the war in their favor, the Vashti declined.

So in the end, let us recap what I've explained.

1. Their gods give some protection aganist Chaos, but they are ultimately responsible for their own actions. They have schools deticated to teaching them control of their powers (something lacking inthe Imperium).

2. The truely dangerous threats to the Federation are home grown since they are lead by Amara (who are the children of the Xai'athi's creator, and thus very influenctial.

3. They pwn the Eldar bacause they have size. They pwn the Orks because they fight them more than they would like to. They pwn the 'Nids because they know how to counter their need to feed. The pwn the Imperium because their badarse.

4. They are not invincible. They have weaknesses which are filled in by breeds that do not share them. The Awali are all-rounders, but are weakened by sound. That weakness is countered by their nullium armor, which asorbs sound. However, since it expensive to mass-produce, it is only given the Warrior Caste. The Warrior Caste is a small drop in the pool when compared to the billions and billions of Imperial Guardsmen they have to fight. The Vashti deal with Chaos and the Eldar, but they have few redeeming traits aside from their resistence to pain, fear, and emotion. They are clearly stronger than the plucky human or savage Ork, but outside of that (and the fact that every Awali and Vasti can regrown body parts like no bodies business), they are rather bland in comparsion to other species.

5. They elements are confined to their Core Worlds, where the majority of the population lives. The rest of the Federation must fend for itself. The Kijeshi, the face of the Xai'athi's military capabilities is responsible for the Core Worlds protection. The rest of the Federation is defended by the breed's military. The Malheureux Rift (where the Vashti reside) and the majority of the Federation's eastern half, are defended by the Armée de l'Vashti, while the central parts of the Federation (outside of the Core Worlds), are defended by the Awali's Silaha. Thus, they cannot make use of their ability to merge forces during battles.

Now look what you've made me do. Making a wall of text. Shame on you. If I didn't answer most of your questions (if any), I'm sorry, but I'm hungery. Play with this for while while I eat. Vivaporius 21:21, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes, the Tyranids avoiding Necron worlds. Never read any of that until now. The Hive Mind is stupid (as far as I know), but I'm pretty sure it would notice that it's Hive Fleets were being desolved by nanites as they attempted to devour a planet MADE OUT OF CRYSTAL. Vivaporius 21:24, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Viva, their gods can not simply protect them from Chaos. That is not how gods in this setting work. Faith in said gods can be used as a shield or sword against Chaos beings, but the Gods are useless on their own. The only gods that take such an active role in the lives of their followers are the Chaos Gods. A resistance to Chaos must be cultivated by an individual, not a race. Supahbadmarine 21:28, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

And while I don't know what you said Supah, while I can make an overpowered race, I'm not trying to. I'm simply considering the level of technology they would have gained by that time, and the weapons they would have made to deal with an enemy far larger than themselves (1 million worlds to the Xai'athi's 750). You can basically say the Xai'athi are Israel in the 1960's. Surround enemies, but having the ability to surpass them technologically, and using that advantage as a deterrant. Vivaporius 21:29, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Hence the reason I said they have school deticated to the teaching of what Chaos can and will do to those who give their lives over to them. It is similar to elementary school. And once again, I don't know if you got thte message (including the one on your talk page, but that's something different), I have a Daemons Codex. I know what they can do. Vivaporius 21:33, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Also on the note of the Tyranids. If a planet has life the Tyranids will attack it. Nanites would be useless as the Tyranids would create spores to neutralize them. The Hive Mind is not stupid. In fact it has an intelligence on a scale that surpasses any other. it can adapt to just about whatever is thrown at it. Supahbadmarine 21:34, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

I know what they can do as well, and if having gods and learning to hate Chaos could stop it then the Imperium and Eldar would not have any problems, now would they? Supahbadmarine 21:35, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

But in order for those spores to counter it, wouldn't need to been able to destroy a swarm of machines, which will be diffcult if those machines are smaller and smarter than the spores? I don't know, I'll read up on it. Also, like the Tyranids, the Xai'athi are adaptive, which is their trademark (which is why the breeds have breeds). Quick question. How many galaxies do you thinked were consumed by the Tyranids? Just come up with a number. Vivaporius 21:38, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Three or four I would guess. You may be right about the Xai'athi being adaptive, but there is no way they are as adaptive as the Tyranids. They literally evolve right in the middle of a battle. Supahbadmarine 21:41, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Now as far as I'm concerned, I know of any Eldar who have fallen to Chaos (the Dark Eldar come pretty close but that's a different story). Now, as for the Imperium, they do perticuarly allow psykers to run around freely, which is probably why they don't teach how to resist Chaos. That make any sense to you? Does for me. Also, the Eldar gods, if is canon right, were weakened by the centuries of neglate by the Eldar. Khaine was weakened because the Eldar had basically forgotten him, which is why he got stomped by a god that was at his peak strength at birth. The Xai'athi gods were also at full strength at birth, and war with daemons that attempt to infiltrate their realm. The part of the Warp the Xai'athi drawn their power from was uneffected by what was happening to the rest of the Warp, because the Xai'athi remained rather peaceful, preventing the Staminis from becoming the turbulent monstrocity like the rest of the Warp. Because the Xai'athi don't drawn their powers from the rest of the Warp, they don't attract as many daemons from other part of the Warp.

I've also mentioned that the Xai'athi were the greatest geneticist in the galaxy up until the arrivial of the Tyranids in M41. As far as I can tell, no other species was creating new ones as pass-time. The Xai'athi children knew what DNA was before they could speak, and the Xai'athi created laws regarding the practice of making new races (how smart they could, how strong, how many, etc.). Once the Tyranids came along and started eating everything, the Xai'athi lost that title. Vivaporius 21:48, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

There are Eldar that have fallen to Chaos, both canon and fanon. Psykers draw their powers from the Warp. The Warp is the Warp, the fact that there is an area under the control of the Xai'athi gods means nothing. The Imperium strictly monitors Psykers more than anything else. I am sorry, but having gods does not protect you. The Orks have fully powerful gods, and they still fall to Chaos from time to time. Also what you said about the Xai'athi and their knowledge of genetics does not change the fact that the Tyranids beat them at it, and would find a way around their defences. Supahbadmarine 22:08, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

And canon also states that other parts of the Warp are uneffected by the Chaos Gods, and I've never heard of these "fallen Orks". That I would like more info on. Also, if you've haven't noticed, I clearly stated that the Xai'athi LOST their position as genetic masters to the TYRANIDS. Vivaporius 22:14, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yes it does say there are other area of the Warp, but have you ever heard of a Psyker that has a connection to one of them? as far as the Ork check this out. If you were not trying to make a point by mentioning their genetics then why bring it up? I am already aware of it. Supahbadmarine 22:19, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

I have been unable to find anything on the psykers' connection other areas of the Warp. As there is no canon established for it, my assumption is that it is open to interpatation. As for the Orks, very interesting. Vivaporius 22:22, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

That may be true, but even if there can be a connection to a specific area of the Warp, it is still part of the Warp in the end. The Psyker would still be subject to possible possession by a Daemon or corruption by Chaos.

Forgot to sign. Supahbadmarine 22:25, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

What was explained was that specific areas of the Warp, while still the Warp, aren't as influenced by the Chaos Gods. So while they may have some control there, they cannot influence those who drawn on that part of the Warp as easily as those who draw on the powers of the Warp proper. Plus, the advantage of having gods is that the soul of the worshipper is protected by those gods, and the god basically owns the soul of the worshipper, the same as any other Chaos God. Also, because of that, the psykers energy comes from the area of the Warp controlled by their god, which is defended by their daemonic legions, which in turn prevent incursions by other Chaotic forces. Thus, while the psyker is still at risk of possession, it is less likely to occur as their soul belongs to their god, who will fight for it as it gives them power. It can be liken to how a home gets it's power from a generator in a certain building controlled by a certain company, defended by their security guards. If that generator falls into the hands of another company, then the home must get their power elsewhere, or pay the new company for power. Vivaporius 22:34, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Don't know much about the Pheonix Lord fella, but I know for a fact from reading the Daemons Codex, Kher-Ys didn't fall to Chaos in the way believed, it was conquered by Slaaneshi daemons, who slaughtered all the inhabitants. The Eldar onboard are dead, and the craftworld is a daemon-infested ruin floating around the Eye of Terror. Vivaporius 22:38, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

You keep mentioning the protection of gods, but the fact remains that even with their own set of gods numerous canon factions still have those that fall to Chaos. You need to understand that Chaos Gods come with their very own set of rules. Other gods do not intervene on behalf of individual followers. Drawing on these sub-dimensions does not ditract the attentions of Daemons. It also does not protect one from Chaos as even non-Psykers can be corrupted. Supahbadmarine 22:52, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Other gods. Not Xai'athi gods. The Laughing God retrieves the soul of the Harlaquins who die. So yes, some gods will go out of their way to help individual followers. As for those that fall to Chaos, the Xai'athi have them, just not many. I noticed that while creating some of the Amara, some of them actually mirrored the Chaos Gods. Idrissa and his sorcerors (Tzeentch), Kondo and his army (Khorne), Ibada and her cultists (Slaanesh), and Ghinjo and her parasitic race (Nurgle). They are by far the closest the Xai'athi have come to worshipping the Chaos Gods, but unlike most other, the vast majority of the population just doesn't want to worship Chaos. It a choice in the end. A choice the person has to make. They could resist serving the gods, they simply do it for selfish reasons (like the vast majority of Horus' supporters joined him). The Xai'athi have everything, and many are trained to resist Chaos. Additionally, most of the Xai'athi aren't psykers. The most of the Liulan, Iconians, and Zverians have no warp signature. Vivaporius 23:02, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Exactly, and it is not always a choice. one can be forced into the service of Chaos. After all it has been stated that only one Sister of Battle ever freely chose to serve Chaos, but that odes not mean that others did not fall. Supahbadmarine 23:11, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

On the bit about Cegorach, he does not protect his followers while they are living. He can take their souls once they have passed. That is why they don't get eaten by Slaanesh. there is an entriely different reason why they are immuned to the while so Chaos. Supahbadmarine 23:13, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

As I have made clear (and Cal even clearer), is that it is down to the individual to choose whether or not they serve Chaos. It is their faith that their gods will protect their soul, dead or alive. Also, in the same way Eldar may serve Tzeentch to protect them from Slaanesh, so to do the Xai'athi with their gods. They fervently worship their gods who protect their souls. Also, your comment on the SoB has on grounds, as it has been stated that one Sororita has EVER fallen to Chaos. Vivaporius 23:25, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

By choice. Only one Sister has ever chosen Chaos. Other have been corrupted against their will. the only faction that has never had any of their number corrupted by merit of their sheer faith is the Grey Knights. Exposure to Chaos corrupts the mind and soul. You can be driven to Chaos, this is a fact. Even the faithful can be corrupted. it takes extreme faith in order to have a strong resistance to Chaos. Last I checked the Xai'athi were not all religious fanatics. Supahbadmarine 23:30, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

They aren't fanatics. But they also don't use their powers all the time. That including the fact their souls belong (which some Eldar may give to Tzeentch for protection), is way there so few traitor Xai'athi. I have go to a meeting, and won't be back til about 9:30 tonight. So if we may put disscussion on hold for time being, I would apprieate it. Vivaporius 23:40, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

I have returned. And seven minute ahead of scedual. Vivaporius 02:28, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back. Supahbadmarine 02:46, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

First, I'm right here. Second, I've read the codex back to back, and there is nothing stating that only Chaos Gods only ones who can own the souls of the living (Apple and Wal-Mart for instance). Now, I reserve the right to choose whether or not the Xai'athi can be influenced by Chaos. As for bending canon, as long as it isn't NCF, I can do that to. I'm not trying to make overpowered, but one can see the foolishness in trying to tell one that resisting Chaos is overpowered. Why can't they? Vivaporius 18:46, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Text limit. Anyway. Just because humanity is a tool, doesn't mean the same the Xai'athi. Now if you will lend your attention for a moment. The Liulan have no warp signature, and only their leaders (the Imperial Family), are psychic. The Iconians gave up their fleshy bodies for robotic ones, rendering them soulless. The Nokemono have a dorment psyker gene, which must be opened through a ritual. Thus, they are useless to Chaos until that gene is activated. The Zverians have little presence in the Warp. Vivaporius 18:55, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Text limit. The Anugami are psychic, but never use their powers as the Priest Caste are the only ones permitted to. They worship their gods fervetly, and the efforts of their ordained psykers protects them from possession. The Kordanians are too self-asorbed to be possessed, and their already corrupt. The Awali, Nexusians, and Vashti will be explained once my fingers are no longer numb from typing. Vivaporius 19:04, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

You won't let me finish. And the Xai'athi were originally xenos, but I was told they were abhuman. Now the Liulan are able to fix anything, WITHIN REASON. They cannot fix an Infinity Cirucit. They cannot fix a Necron body. They cannot fix my additude right now. The Nokemono genes had further explaintion, but we'll get to that road in time. As explained in the codex, only the soulless and those with a very low presense in the warp (Zverians and Tau), are protected from Chaos. Vivaporius 19:52, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Sniper, but I never added the Liulan because I'm still working on the ones I've added already. Remember, Binadamu controls the Xai'athi's evolution, and which ones become psychic through genetics. The Imperial Family got their traits that way. Now, as for the Iconians, they have no soul. That's it. None. Nada. The Zverians are like the Tau, as they cannot percieve the Warp. Now considering their control of untainted Eldar know more than they would like about the Warp. Vivaporius 20:06, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Now, as for weaknesses and all that, let me finish and I'll get there. As for whether or not people connect with them isn't my concern. The Xai'athi aren't perfect, bit you never let me work them on that when I try. Listening to Cal complain won't accomplish anything. All it does is slow me down and make me angry (no offense, but council is never easy to accept). Now, as far as Chaos goes, the Xai'athi deal with it when it appears, but it is taken care of quietly. The Xai'athi have their problems, but since I never got around to working on it. The Xai'athi aren't perfect, hence the reason they have so many home-grown enemies. They aren't invincible as they've lost millions in senseless wars trying to prevent their perfect world from collasping around them. That is their story. They see the destruction around them and fear the same happening to them. They saw the Eldar's "perfect world" collapse like a stack of cards, humanity's federation disentagrate, watch hundreds of empires rise and fall throughout their history. Of the major powers in the galaxy, only the Solaris Federation remains. They want to hold onto the past and fear what could happen if they let go. 98.227.159.252 20:31, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hence the reason I moved on. Simply mentioning a point I was trying to to make. 98.227.159.252 20:33, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Now as for the Xai'athi being the perfect race, that is in some ways true. Binadamu was trying to make them that way. However, the Xai'athi belief that they are superior to all others has gotten to their heads. They believe that they've done better than the Chaos Gods ever could, and have declared themselves enemies of Chaos. They aren't targeted for corruption by Chaos since the Ruinous Powers see them as a threat to their power. The Xai'athi preach peace, acceptance, order, and prosperity, all of which are an affront to Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle. The Xai'athi are prospering while the rest of the galaxy is in a self-destructive spiral. Many species see Solaris as a way out, taking many recruits from Chaos, who feed on the suffering of mortals. Solaris and the Xai'athi are the opposite of what Chaos wants, and simply corrupting them isn't easy. While Chaos can corrupt a few, corrupting entire worlds of Xai'athi is difficult if nit possible, as the Xai'athi's beliefs shield them from the worst Chaps gas to offer. Also, the Nexusians who in depth what Chaos is capable of play the part of regulator, hunting down and stopping Chaos in it's tracks where it may ne found. Found them, they spend their immortal lives protecting the Xai'athi from Vhaos. Other parts of the Xai'athi do the same, and attempt to keep the Xai'athi on the right track. It's an endless job, but they are doing a good job starving Chaos of new recruits. Their gods keep their souls out of the hands of Chaos, and war with minor gods who attempt to attack the realm the Xai'athi draw on for power. As the codex has stated, a psyker's impression on the warp is a pinprick, which over time could grow as more power is added to it, or simply fade away. The Xai'athi have laws regarding the proper use of their powers, and psychics is one of them. I have plenty more to say, bit I need to get more gum. Vivaporius 20:59, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I avoided saying "best in the galaxy" for a reason. The Vasjti have little else outside of their anti-psyker powers. The Awali are as divided on how to deal with a problem as the Imperium is racist. The Nexusians are excellent psykers, but don't surpass the Eldar. The Liulan are frail, and are afraid of the Warp, leading to them avoiding all content with anything connected to it. The Iconians are builders, but are secretive, even around their own. The Xai'athi are prospering because they know what the alternative is. I understand your reasoning, and would be more open to your suggestions if you'd understand what I'm trying to say. As for someone giving me a hand, your the only ones here (and Jackel). I could care less if someone helps me, as long as I het this over with. I haven't gotten to their current status yet since I'm still working on their PAST. If you saw the dates, you'd understand where they are currently. Heck, I haven't even finished their lastest war. They still have problems with the Orks, who want their worlds back. The Eldar have been planning something for the Xai'athi. The Necrons haven't arrived in large numbers yet, so that's storm that has yet to arrive. The Xai'athi and the Imperium currently have a truce, but the Xai'athi obvisously don't trust the Imperium to keep it for long. As for the Tyranids, the Xai'athi have only seen small groups of them around the edges of their space. Finally, as for Chaos, I've had a major Black Crusade in the works for them for some time. It involved a large number of nasty things the Xai'athi created coming back to deal with them. I planned to ask if anyone would like to throw sone of their traitor marines in for a war the would nearly have destroyed Solaris, but wanted to finish the articles first. The Xai'athi are not invincible, and already know that the Xai'athi are to powerful, as I intended (not overpowered, just prosperous). Vivaporius 21:23, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I know how Chaos works. If they notice something that cold change the future (every millennia or so), they will try to crush it or corrupt it. Black crusades, new civilizations, or individuals (the Emperor), will catch their eye and distract them long enough to see the outcome. You can't apply logic to Chaos. I know. My bad if I somehow forgot that. I'm pretty sure that's why I got their codex, so I could find out how they work. Vivaporius 21:30, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Actually there are Black Crusades that do not invovle the Black Legion. Go look Black Crusade up on lexicanum. I think you will be surprized SG. Supahbadmarine 21:34, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Thought any massive invasion by Chaos was a black crusade. Thanks for the info. Vivaporius 21:36, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I would be happy to help you understand anything that you don't know about Chaos Viva. If you are still having difficulty with the concept after reading the Codex then I suggest you disregard it for the time being. Supahbadmarine 21:37, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Then I withdraw that statement. >.> Vivaporius 21:37, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not having difficulty understanding the concept, I just need it to sink in. I'm glad your an admin. Now as for that crusade, I have work to do. As for wars to fill up the peace gaps, even more work. I shall first finish the Xai'athi bits, and then the Fed bits, followed by the juicy bits for flavor. Then I shall add the crunchy flavorless bits called war. Vivaporius 21:42, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just remember that when it comes to Chaos it is better to think about it as a spiritual plague rather than some evil religion. The more contact you have with things associated with it, the more likely it is to corrupt. Magnus the Red was under the influence of Tzeentch for countless years while still faithfully serving the Emperor. Fulgrim was under the influence of a Daemon without even realizing it. It is a very subversive and often subtle force. Those being corrupted often have no clue that they are changing, and may not show any noticable signs to others as well. Supahbadmarine 21:49, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just remember that non-Chaos gods do not directly intervene for their followers until after death. Supahbadmarine 01:15, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I've drifting the great realm known as the Internet, searching for info on Chaos gods. What I've found is that minor Chaos gods (like the Xai'athi ones), can have followers, daemons, realms, and all the other good stuff the bigger ones have. Also, since they're gods and all, they can own the souls of their followers, who feed them.

My evidence.

1. From 40k Wikia- "The strongest of these beings become the gods and daemons associated with a specific group or culture, and almost every single intelligent race or force of will has its universal concepts or religious figures personified in some way by the Warp."

2. From DakkaDakka- "If a minor god has developed enough power not to be snuffed out by the others then chances are he has his own realm and his own servants and probably worshipers."

As for corruption.

1. From RPG.net- "To be utterly incorruptible and steadfast against all the things that make Eldar and Human and Tau and all those fallen, dark races sway and turn to the Forces of Corruption. Not even lowly Gretchins would stand for being corrupted by such powers."

I have more to back up my statement, and will now take questions. More may follow. Vivaporius 01:22, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Minor Chaos Gods. There are Chaos Gods besides the Big Four. The Gods of individual races are not Chaos Gods and the same rules do not apply to them Viva. Trust me on this, I am right. Supahbadmarine 01:33, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

On that note I gave you proof that Orks can fall to Chaos. Supahbadmarine 01:34, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

THEN LET ME IN ON YOUR SECRETS!!! TEACH ME YOUR WAYS!!! I...must...know. Why? How? Where did you get this information? Please. Vivaporius 01:44, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Primarily from lexicanum, the Warhammer 40k wiki and careful observation. Look throughout any and all sources on Warhammer 40k. The Chaos Gods are the only ones that are this active. In fact it is this direct intervention with mortals that characterizes Chaos. A non-Chaos God does not own his followers' souls. For your soul to be owned by a God means that you are that god's plaything. It can shape your mind, soul and body. it can reward and punish you at a whim. One who is owned by a God could not even choose to worship another god if he wanted to. The power of non-Chaos Gods is embodied by the faith of the follower, they themselves can not intervene on the followers behalf. Supahbadmarine 01:51, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. That was all you needed to do to convence me. Now I can go about the laborious process of fixing the articles. The bits about the Xai'athi providing gifts and daemonic armies can stay hopefully, as I've pay some attention to Isha and Khaine's interventions (well, Khaine more like giving some strength to an avatar and all that fluff), considering this bit; "Spreading the thoughts and events that grant them form and power and even interacting with the material world in a way that further strengthens the beleifs and attitudes that give them existence. The strongest of these beings become the gods and daemons associated with a specific group or culture, and almost every single intelligent race or force of will has its universal concepts or religious figures personified in some way by the Warp, be they Chaos, Eldar, Ork, or Human." Yay, I'm observent (and quite immature, I know). Now I don't know if that applies to the Xai'athi gods, who reside within the Warp, but that's for another time. Vivaporius 02:03, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

You are quite observant. My point was that the way in which the Gods of individual faction intervene is different from the way that the Chaos Gods operate. All gods have some impact on the material universe. Living Saints and the Avatars of Khaine are profe of this, but only Chaos Gods meddle so frivolosuly in the affairs of mortals. Supahbadmarine 02:08, October 6, 2011 (UTC)