Talk:Xai'athi/2

When I stated the number of Xai there are, this is to be taken with a grain of salt. The Xai were created 5,000 years before current events, and have most of abilities of the Xai'athi, including their fast reproductive rates. The Xai as race are in hiding. They are waiting for the right time to reveal themselves, so for the time being, they aren't much of threat, yet. I should be vague about their numbers, shouldn't I? I haven't yet decerned what type of battles they'll appear in, and how many their bring to the fight. In any case, my originial point is that they are plentiful, but not an active force in the galaxy. They are letting their cousins handle public appearances for the time being. Vivaporius 22:03, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'll remove the blantant take over the galaxy part, my bad, and I'll perhaps get around to the numbers. I'll be off for an hour or two, so don't wait up. If you could, could you take a look at the Kaizaris' page? Vivaporius 23:39, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Sure. No problem. By the way I just completed the timeline page for that Alternate Timeline I was talking about. When you get a chance take a look at The Empire of Many. Supahbadmarine 00:10, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

This is Viva. The Eldar erect mental barriers around their minds as kids. It's on the Lexicanum in their psychic powers section. Now, unlike the Marines, the minds of the Xai'athi are stronger as they are genetically superior. The Emperor's science was good, but Binadamu's was more advanced. The Xai'athi don't need conditioning (Grey Knights my eye). These aren't unrealistic, their just fact. Also, remember that the Xai'athi have pocession of most Eldar knowledge. They've know how Chaos works. 68.87.72.229 04:28, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, I can accept the mental barrier. However will power is not soley the product of genetics. Are you actually trying to tell me that even their civilians have superior willpower to Space Marines? That just isn't practical. Furthermore I have to point out that knowledge of Chaos is more likely to corrupt than ignorance. Supahbadmarine 05:26, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't say every civilian, but in a way yes. The Xai'athi are adaptive, and would have tried to develop new ways of combating Chaos. The Xai'athi worked on increasing their mental willpower Over history for a verity of reasons. Chaos is just the latest. Now, once again, it isn't unrealistic since the Xai'athi the marines as Playthings. The majority of the Xai'athi are the equal or for a few, the superior of Space Marines. The marines were made using inferior technology, and their gene seed has been corrupted over time. The Xai'athi undergo new generation to Prepare them for new dangers. The "third generation" of Xai'athi were created to cope with the realities of their frailty after the Great Solar War, and most of the population has also been prepared to the best of the Federations ability to cope with Chaos. Now while the Xai'athi in the Core Worlds are completely free of the perils of the Ruinous Powers, the other 70% are at risk of attack. Binadamu's rutiune trips to the Black Library to study Chaos have given him a wealth of information of how to deal with it, or at the very least, learn how to stave it off for the time being. Sorry for the long winded comment, but my point was the Xai'athi have little trouble with Chaos, and in the event that they do, it is crushed ruthlessly, and immediately. Also, knowing about Chaos isn more likely to corrupt, but it is those wish to serve it. As it said in the Chaos Marines codex (yes I read that too), all men of power cab choose to devote their lives to great good or great harm. The Xai'athi have the chose, and most of them have chosen the right one. Not that that can be said for all of them. Vivaporius 14:19, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Now Viva, I know that we have gone over this a thousand times, but the Xai'athi as a whole need to be severely depowered. Every time I read through the anatomy section my whole brain screams. There should not be a race this good in 40k, advanced science and genetics engineering or no. Supahbadmarine 07:23, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well then, I'm sorry for your brain. When I decide to down grade I will. Until I get around to parceling out their powers and abilities, when finish fixing the dates, and finally complete their individual breed articles, then I'll work on the Xai'athi anatomy. Until then, you and brain will just need to have some warn tea and a few naps. Besides, I haven't worked on their amatory section for some months now, so I never got around to adding in the corrections. So yeah. Vivaporius 13:54, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

First thing is first. The fact that the Daemons of their Gods offer help to them, and that certain members become Daemon Princes under them is completely NCF. Non-Chaos Gods do not have Champions in the same way that Chaos Gods do, and once more non-Chaos gods do not directly interfere in mortal affairs. That is the trademark of Chaos, and Chaos alone. Supahbadmarine 16:33, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

It just seems to me that whatever horrible threat is out there, the Xai'athi have something to counter it. And the dreaded tyranids have never bothered Solaris?

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 16:38, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 16:38, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the Xai'athi haven't seen the Tyranids, as Hive Fleet Leviathan bypassed them, and went straight for the Imperium. They were just far enough out of the way for the Imperium to take the space bugs. Vivaporius 17:00, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

That is one of the things we are talking about Viva. The Xai'athi are just too far removed from the major conflicts of the galaxy. Supahbadmarine 17:04, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Another thing, how do the Tyranids simply miss 750 star systems when thet are attacking all over the Milky Way? Supahbadmarine 17:11, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Now for Supah. The Eldar seemed to interfere in the affairs of the Eldar at lot. They even helped out during the war against the C'tan (either speculation or fact). Chaos tends to stick their nose into the affairs of mortals whenever they have enough cultists there to warrant their attention. Now, as stated on the 40k wiki, even the Xai'athi gods al an be considered Chaos gods, as they are the manifestation of the Xai'athi religious beliefs (as religious ideals are also manifested in the Warp, does not involve the Emperor, as he is a completely different story). So daemons and champions can still be created, so long as the god in question has the power to do so without being turned into one themselves.

And to go even further into Dirge's question, the Xai'athi were either equipped for the situtation beforehand, and discovered it after the battle with the enemy. The Xai'athi have no protection against the Tyranids is general, but do against Genestealers as they have been equipped with the ability to override the genetic template of another species. Against the Tyranids in general, no protection. The Vashti are the only ones who have encountered the Necrons, and thus the Xai'athi have mo idea how to fight them. The Orks are still a threat, but borders with the Federation make them a target, as the Orks know the Xai'athicare good good fighters, making them a permanent enemy (which seems to be the universal rule. Experience fighting the Orks has given the Xai'athi all the knowledge they need to keep the Orks outside the Core Worlds. The rest of the Federation suffers from attacks like nobodys seen. Vivaporius 17:15, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

There are key differences between normal Gods and Chaos Gods Viva. What you read was talking about minor Chaos Gods. I am not backing down on this. If what you are saying is true then why haven't I seen a Daemon Prince of Gork? It is NCF.

Also we need to remove all of these ways that the Xai'athi just counter things. that is way overpowered. Supahbadmarine 17:19, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

If you look at a galaxy map for 40k, you'll see that Hive Fleet Leviathan attacked to the galactic southwest of the Imperium. The Federation is located to the galactic west of the hive fleet. The Tyranids just barely missed Solaris. But remember, the Xai'athi have still been attacked by Genestealers, who don't amass the massive gatherings like in the Imperium or the Tau Empire. Craftworld Iyandan was just in the way, and that's why they became the target of attack. Vivaporius 17:19, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yes the initial attacks came from the east, but there is major Tyranid activity in every Segmentum presently. R=There is no area of space that is safe from the Tyranid threat, and cetainly not such a big area of space. Supahbadmarine 17:22, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Because Gork and Mork are to belusy fighting each other instead of watching the Orks fight. And you've completely ignored the facts that I've already given you. And you've yet again ignored the statements of the Xai'athi multi-leveled empire. The frontier is a filter, and the rim worlds are a cushion. The Xai'athi in the core worlds benefit from the suffering outside of their domain. Vivaporius 17:24, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

First off, more reasons, good reasons, still too powerful. No matter how good or well thoughout the reasons are the simple fact remains, they are too powerful. And if they are being attacked by Orks like nobodies buiness, if they will be devastated by the Tyranids, and if they truly have no idea how to fight the Necrons, then say that! Stress that there are things that can cause serious in not fatal damage to Solaris and in doing so bring them down to earth without downscaling them.

Its the end of the 41st milenium remember? That means until GW gets off its ass, everyones future is six feet down the crapper.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 17:27, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Segmentum Pacificus and Segmentum Obsurcus have suffered no such attacks. The Tyranids have only come from the east and the south of the galaxy, as stated in the codex, wikis, and forums. The day the Tyranids come from any other part of the universe is when the Imperium is truly screwed. Vivaporius 17:27, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

I did not ignore anything Viva. The majority of Gods are Warp Gods, but Chaos gods make up a very specific class of deities. Your Gods can not display the same level of influence as them. This is not a debate, and i am not going to let this go. You can quote all you like, but I know how Chaos operates, and other gods do not have the same characteristics, period. Supahbadmarine 17:27, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Doom. Supahbadmarine 17:29, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Your correct Dirge. I've too occupied with other projects to explain the truly devestating enemies the Xai'athi have. The Xai'athi are powerful, but they've been fighting enemies who have proven rather simple to deal with. The Orks (the Xai'athi's traditional enemy), have been unable to break through the Rim Worlds, and most of their forces are still stuck on the Frontier worlds. The Kijeshi and the Orks have been at each others throats for millennia, but neither side can win a decisive battle. Vivaporius 17:32, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well as for the Hive Fleets, theres a face load of undeniable evidence. They Hive Fleets are attacking in most directions. And their is Hive Fleet Ouroboros (dont ask me what that is) thats came from near the Eye of Terror.

As for enemies, if they are suffering, then say so. That why people are less inclined to accuse I of being overpowered.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 17:35, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

But that still doesn't explain Segmentum Obcurus, and yes the Imperium is indeed doomed. The statement about the Xai'athi gods is exactly why I wanted to created those three Chaos gods for the Xai'athi I told you about. I'll let the issue go once I've made them. Vivaporius 17:35, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Double Doom. Supahbadmarine 17:36, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

I posted after you stated the other hive fleet. And I will add all of the gritty details. Vivaporius 17:37, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

The point remains that the Tyranids would attack the Solaris Federation. Supahbadmarine 17:39, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

And that's why the Xai'athi are trying to replace the Imperium, because it is incapable of holding off these threats and fighting off the xenos at the same time. Solaris gives the races that could be fighting the Tyranids a place to stay, while the Imperium is expending resources on other wars instead of fighting the space birds. Vivaporius 17:40, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe, but that is a fact you've decided. Until a splinter fleet is created and what not, the Tyranids haven't encountered Solaris. Vivaporius 17:42, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Viva it is not right for you to get to pick and choose who does and does not get to threaten the Xai'athi. If you want them to be so safe and secure then make them have ten worlds and tuck them off into some obscure pocket of Space where noone will ever find them. If you want them to take part in the setting then they have to take the same hits that everybody else is taking. Supahbadmarine 17:45, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Something just occoured to me. The 'nids use other races genetic material right? If they get their hands on Xai'athi genes, all hell is breaking loose on Solaris. So how about, just an idea, a small splinter fleet approaches Solaris and consumes a not important not well populated planet. Xai'athi genetic are introduced to the tyranids resulting in a $&#@-ton of new and insane tyranids species. Now Solaris has a serious threat on their hands and is taking serious damage.

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 17:47, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Ugh! Fine, the Tyranids can attack Solaris. And Dirge, I've considered that, but the Xai'athi genetic code will deteriorate like cottont candy in a bucket of water. Plus, the nanites will destroy the Xai'athi on command. It's not so much a defense, but more of them trying to meep their tech out of other people's hands. A small group of Tyranids could try and sucede, but that will have to wait until Supah is finally appeased. Vivaporius 17:56, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you. : (

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 18:03, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Hey don't worry, it's not your fault. I'm just upset at all the work I'll have to do now. I'm lazy. Vivaporius 18:06, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I now what your saying. But will it really be as much work as the rest of the Xai'athi, Solaris and other related pages took to make? XD

Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 18:35, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Your right. When I get some time, and I'm not using this IPhone, I'll start cleaning up the article. Vivaporius 18:56, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Okay... I guess Supah needs a bit of backing up here on his point about Gods. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 19:36, November 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) "Now for Supah. The Eldar seemed to interfere in the affairs of the Eldar at lot. They even helped out during the war against the C'tan (either speculation or fact)." That is partly ture but the statement is wrong. In the time before the "War in Heaven" (the NON-C'TAN ONE), before Khaine initiated a war against the Eldar (who he percieved as a threat, as Lileath had prophesised that the Eldar would eventually cause his destruction, which eventually happened... millions of years later) the Eldar were able to physicaly meet with their Gods. During this time the Eldar Gods could interfere in their affairs and help the Eldar out. However, after Khaine had slain the greatest of the 'mortal Eldar", known as Eldanesh, a barrier was cast between the Gods and the Eldar. The Eldar Gods were from that point onwards unable to interact with their children, and all the Eldar could achieve was to pray to them. Of course, Cegorach still saves the souls of the Harlequins, but that is all he can achieve... as they are a small group of individuals who he can keep an eye on.
 * 2) As for the Tyranids. Here is a nice couple of maps detailing the movements of the Tyranid incursions: Here and Here

I understand that Cal, but his gods have Daemonic Legions that they send into realspace to aid the Xai'athi. They also have Champions and Daemon Princes. All gods have some impact upon their mortal followers, but none of them are this involved besides the Chaos Gods. Supahbadmarine 19:49, November 4, 2011 (UTC)

Cal and Supah, I already stated that the article was going to be reworked. The gods can stay, as they have enough amount of canon backing to make them canon friendly. As for the minor Chaos gods, the Xai'athi numbered in the trillions, and unlike humanity at the same time, the Xai'athi more religious, and having a large number of psykers, would have fed enough of their emotions and concepts into the Warp to have a manifestation of their gods. As for true Chaos gods, the Xai'athi (having beaten the Orks and xenos senseless), had become argonant to the extreme, and overime those emotions, along with the souls of the dead having pretty much the same ideas, feelings, and level of arrogance, attracted each other in the Warp, and overtime that glob of emotions (mostly Xai'athi), would gain enough sentience to become a god. This new god would be attracted to the race it had the most in common with (in this case the Xai'athi), and interfere from time to time to keep it's source power of power safe. It would simply carry with it's own activities, and when it's power source was threatened, protect it. However, as this god would require servants, it would have a small group of followers depending on it's popularity and hold in the materium. This is just my explanation and reasoning, along with research in the Codexes, and searching on DakkaDakka, and other 40k forums discussing the topic. Vivaporius 20:55, November 4, 2011 (UTC)