Talk:Solaris Federation

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One little thing...
Alrhough you have archived the page you still need to keep the NCF marker until a Mod officially removes it. It was a good idea to archive this page as it took me ages to scrawl down to the bottom of it on my iPod. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 12:15, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Also, the Onhyl Cylinders had a limited range and speed (less than the speed of light) lower than that of warp travel, meaning it would have been impossible for then to reach the outer regions of the Perseus Arm. At 67,000 lightyears from terra it would have taken them that many years to reach Nyumbani. Unfortunately, this means you will A, have to revise your dates and B look for an alternative means of transport. For example, in 212.M4 the Onhyl Cylinders land on a planet 1000 light years from Terra. The early colonists develop a more advanced civilisation over time and by 532.M6 they have developed their own ships capable if warp travel. Early tests are a disaster but a huge raid perpetrated by an Ork Waaagh!!! forces the colonists to leave the system by using several of the unstable warp capable ships. The remains small fleet then arrives (to them 4 years) 400 years later in the Nyumbani System in 938.M6. Their fleet has been ravaged so they are forced to make planet fall on Nyumbani, which they establish as a new human colony. It is then, at this time that Bindamu comes to prominence and initiates his nanite experiments. Or something along those lines. This an important issue which need to he addressed as the Cylinders are key to your article. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 13:14, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. I tried to advoid touching the tah, but had to move the entire page in the end. Not that good at archiving. Or timelines appearently. I'll be sure incorporate your idea, I can work with that setting. Back to Epsilon Eridani! Vivaporius 13:30, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry too much about the dates thing. It is the kind of thing I could have easily overlooked if I wrote an article which made use of Ohnyl Cylinders. All you have to do is go back to the Epsilon Eridani idea again, which was rather clever, and re-write some of the dates. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 15:17, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Alrighty then. I'll handle the article later. I've got another, easier project I'm working on as recent. If you ever get the chance, could you swing over to the Sankari page, and check it out? Vivaporius 17:18, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

I've checked out the Sankari and left my C&C. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 18:09, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

And that my good man is why I love it. Vivaporius 12:29, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you'd want anyone in the Solaris Federation Military to be called Ydmyk, because it is the Norwegian word for Humble or submissive, mostly Humble, though. Regards, TardirProductions 01:52, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

I know what Ydmyk means, and it's the honorific name of the Federation's 18th leader. Look in the section of the article named "Aftermath". The military is called the Kijeshi, Swahili for "military". Vivaporius 02:39, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

Could you please link the Rixari in this article as I have done on their page with several different aspects of the Solaris Federation. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 02:35, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Cal_XD, I forgot to do that. 98.227.159.252 04:30, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'll critique your take on the incursion. The Rixari possess technology equivalent to that of the Xai'athi, although their slave species are barely on par with Imperial tech. The Avarano are a completely separate xenos species from the Rixari (not a sub-species). Also, any ships would be vaporised within minutes of entering the orbit of Avareau (as their is an array of weapons located on the planets surface and on the twin moons, a location the Federation forces would likely overlook). That, and the Rixari quickly abandoned their desolate homeworld at the beginning of their Second Golden Age. I think the reason the war comes to an end is because the Kaizari orders the assassination of the current Rixari Emperor (against Binadmu's warnings that the Emperor is a reasonable individual) and the aftermath ruins the resolve of the Rixari who were never really committed to the war. They immediately seek an agreement (after forcing their Avarano allies out of the war) before the new (and unstable) Rixari Empire is crowned. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 17:57, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. But the Xai'athi could easily overwhelm the Rixari, that's just a fact. Vivaporius 20:02, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Now Viva, remember what I said about being too perfect. That is why I am not likely to have any of my guys get in a fight with them. No chance at winning, no point in fighting.

I know, just went overboard with it. Anyway, I've revised the Rixari Incursion. If there is anything I should add or remove, just say the word. Vivaporius 20:12, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Things that need changing... it was the previous Emperor, Ilaxan Yul'drak who was the reasonable one. His heir was in fact less co-operative, with his father's aides conspiring against him, in order to allow a peace settlement. Also, Avareau remained the Rixari homeworld, despite the fact that they deserted it. The population relocated to the twin moons of the planet. Any fleet would be annihilated if they came into Avareau's orbit as the planet and it's moons are equipped with thousands of anti-spacecraft weapons. Also, please check out my version of the Incursion on the Rixari page. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 22:48, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I just did. I'll change the additude of the new Emperor, and see about the fleet issue. Thousands of space weapons only do not insure victory in space. Be mindful of that, as any day, I might feel peckish and send an armada to Avareau to pick up seafood. :D Vivaporius 23:04, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

I like the changes. Also, I think you should add a bit the part "though many Federation officials believed it to be overkill," since the Rixari had large fleet of 1000 Agate Dreadnoughts in orbit around the planet. Perhaps "These opinions changed after the Rixari fleet became visible. Also, could you remove the part that the "Rixari were pushed out of the Federation" since the Rixari surrendered despite the fact they were currently the victorious side. Also maybe change it to that the Kaizari had the Emperor assassinated because she hoped it would ruin the resolve of the Rixari (as it did) against Binadmu's warning that it may in fact strengthen their determination to fight (this also provides Madora with another inaccurate prediction). Also, as I've already established that Tah'aln is excessively arrogant, he would no doubt have a retort to the Kaizari's statement about the Black Lotus. Something along the lines of: "And what if they could, if you, the Xai'athi, would care to look to your left, I believe that is what I like to call an Agate Class Dreadnought. Their such wonderful ships, easily capable of destroying a stellar system. And, as we speak one thousand of these ships hang above this planet's orbit, Mon-keigh." Because lets face it, the Emperor has this certain way with diplomats. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:01, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't say "victororius". The Xai'athi worlds number 750. Their protectorates and colonies number 4,000 (most being small mining worlds, hardly worth defending). Your Rixari are took 31. If they did manage to reach the Core Worlds, every race in the Federation would slam into the invading force, and slaughter them. The Federation got thru dealing with two Imperial invasions, three massive Ork wars (lost the first which brought them to the Perseus Arm), two Eldar wars (one with the Empire and another with a coalition of Craftworlds), a huge slave rebellion IN the Core Worlds, and a civil war on the new homeworld, not to mention the Necron and Tyranid attacks. The Xai'athi were almost exterminated very early on in their history, and refuse to go through the same thing again. Your Rixari would have to deal with a race that make pay for every ceneimeter of ground they took. And as for the Black Lotus deal, Vijana was talking off the top of her head, thought somewhat correct. The Black Lotus Dreadnought has been in production sense 007.M7. In my drafts for the Marikibu (Federation Navy), there are around 5,000 of these beasts, but as a control, only 1,000 are allowed to operate at any given (sorta like how only two Titans are allowed on the battlefield after the Horus Heresy). In all due respect, the Rixari are tolarated, no more, no less. Of course, I could be wrong. 24.12.204.194 00:37, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

When I said "Victorious", I meant from the perspective of the Rixari, who had no idea of the full extent of the Solaris Federation until just before Ilaxan wrote up the peace deal. Also, I was thinking that another way that the Rixari could be involved is that their is some kind of conspiracy between a few Vashti and a few Rixari to eliminate the troublesome Emperor Tah'aln. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:51, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Not true. One of the reasons why I kept pushing you to make the Federation smaller is because an empire that size would be constantly under attack from multiple forces, no matter how safe their space is. At a time like this other hostile Xenos like Orks or Dark Eldar would be taking advantage, as well as the forces of Chaos possibly. An empire like the Federation could never mobilize its entire force for one threat because it would be constantly threatened from multiple sides. Supahbadmarine 00:53, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Which is exactally why each group of Xai'athi can mobilized their own. The Watu-Kijeshi, Armee de l'Vashti, Iconian Drone Legions, all designed to help the Federation hold it's own. Also, the Orks were pushed out of the Federation's portion of the Perseus Arm during the Second and Third Ork Wars, and the Dark Eldar are only able to use the Webway gate on Kordan, and must fight way off the planet and pass the Awali homeworld, Juno, which orbits that planet. The Eldar craftworlds are too small to be of any threat to the Federation, the Tyranid were defeated, and tricked into attacking the Imperium, and the Necrons were defeated by the Vashti during the Necron Wars. There's nothing south of the Federation but empty space, the Imperium lies to the north, and asorbs all of the attackers. To the west, more empty space, and to the east, well, more Imperium. The Federation, during it's 40,000 years, has been able to secure it's borders from most threats. They also have the protectorates, who serve as buffers. The Federation can have as many worlds as they due because they were there first, and had little resistence aside from the Orks. Since there are so few worlds where the Federation is, they can easily deal threats, as they know where they will be, instead of searching every solar system.

Now for you Cal_XD. I like that idea. Tell me more. Vivaporius 01:09, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

You're telling me that in the many hundreds of worlds that the Federation owns there is only one usable Webway Gate. Viva that pushes circumstance too far. Also it does not matter that each force has it's own army. Each planet in the Imperium has its own PDF, there are the Space Marines, the Guard and many many more forces that protect the Imperium, but it does not stop their enemies from attepting to attack. A civilization this large can not perfectly secure their borders Viva. There are numerous other reasons that what you are saying is impossible, but I don't have the energy to go over them. Also you are making way too light of all of the other factions. What is the point of having such an invincible, untouchable empire? It just exists essentially unopposed. If you wanted to create an empire like that, then why bother putting it into 40k in the first place? Supahbadmarine 01:30, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

@Supah: I think your right, If ALL of the Solaris Federation went to go and deal with a single threat they would be open to other attacks.

@Viva: First, could you change the "The Xai'athi simply overwelmed the Rixari with numbers, and when the Rixari were pushed out of the Federation, and demanded an end to the war. Kaizari Vijana was denied a audience with the Rixari Emperor, and fustrated with the intolable Rixari, she had him assassinated by the Vikosi Maalum." Solely because the Rixari effectively surrendered before the Solaris Federation launched a counter strike and it should be that Vijana had the Emperor assassinated to weaken the resolve of the Rixari. As for my suggestion, as Akasha mainly had an issue with Tah'aln rather than the Rixari themselves, that she instigates a plot to get the co-operative Rixari to eliminate their new Emperor.

A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 01:49, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

And yet we are stuck in another long winded discussion. The Federation destroyed the webways in their space during the height of the Eldar Empire, after the Eldar threatened a war aganist them. Since the webways were the only form of travel for their armies at the time from what I know, destroying the webways, which the Xai'athi anyway, kept the Eldar at bay. The only reason they didn't blow up the one on Kordan was because it was submerged, and an earthquake revealed it. The Imperial PDF and Imperial Guard are crap, so you can't compare them to my. The Federation isn't untouchable or invincible, which you can clearly see in the article if you'd look. You constantly state that an empire can't have "perfectly" secured borders, which is why I've poured as much research into to the canon empires, and looking for ways they could theoritically could be difficult to attack. With age comes experience, and with experience come better tactics. The Nodedrive, the Xai'athi, unlike the Eldar, needed a better form of travel, and thus, unlike the Eldar who didn't need to innovate because they had everything, needed to develop new forms of travel. Using the Eldar's technology, and experimental warp drives they had, the Xai'athi created a new form of travel. The Xai'athi work their way around canon, exploiting loopholes, as the canon sources never stated that there isn't any other form of travel. Likewise, it never stated that an empire can't secure borders. I used common sense, like the Orks have small numbers in the galactic south, and that region of space is unoccupied. It's outside of Imperial space, and as far as I've been able to determine, the Old Ones weren't in that area, and thus, there were no webways there. I could go on telling all of the ways the Federation can do what it does, but then I did have to listen to a hardcore fan my article to pieces out of rage. 24.12.204.194 01:58, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I could come up with a lot of rebutles to what you just said, but I don't feel like fighting over this. I know all too well how tenacious you are when defending what you have written, but before i end the discussion let me ask you two things. One you did not answer my question of why you would want to place such a secure empire in a setting that is defined by struggle, and two don't you feel it is a little ridiculous if you have to come up with a dozen complicateed explanations for every little discrepency? Supahbadmarine 02:14, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

For the explanation I don't know why. I find myself doing that alot. As for the struggling part, I wanted the Federation to appear as the last bastion of peace in galaxy, that is collasping under the weight of it's own power. A civil war could erupt at any moment, held together by the power of the Madoras. Vivaporius 03:32, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I sort have noticed that. I once considered how the Derkallen might target such a difficult empire. My conclusion was that they would send in troops to infiltrate, and then start breaking down the relationships within the Federation, then attack. Supahbadmarine 03:49, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

That would be the best way, and the most difficult. It is their greatest strength, as no breed is capable fending off a major threat alone without help from another, just as Binadamu intented. Their comes from their diversity, and ability to adapt. Vivaporius 04:03, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out that the Tau should not be a major part of the Federation. Hear me out before you make a judgement. While I am alright with the Federation having Tau citezens and personel in their military, they would have to be small. The federation is many, many times bigger than the Tau Empire. As a result the Federation would have to practically empty out the Tau Empire in order to have a significant demograghic of Tau among them, especially in the military. Supahbadmarine 18:29, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice. I was unaware of the Tau population limits. Vivaporius 18:47, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Well sure. The Tau Empire is curently made up of twenty something Septs. i Sept is a World. In fact your Federation dwarfs any and every other Canon Interstellar empire by a massive margin, with the exception of the Imperium. An empire of more than 100 worlds is unheard of. Supahbadmarine 19:13, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Well then, I guess that's no longer the case. :) Vivaporius 19:26, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Interesting..even if being as incompatible with canon as you can get. TrashMan 20:38, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I not even going to bother explaining anymore. Vivaporius 22:43, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

Explain what? That you created a massive "auper-awesome" empire that can't possibly fit into cannon, ever? With a Emperor of Mankind - wannabe leader? Bleargh..... TrashMan 17:16, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well, at least my "Emperor of Mankind wannabe leader" is still alive. Deal with it. Vivaporius 17:54, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Ahh....your reply confirms my suspicion. You're no interested in canon at all - just with how you can mold the WH40K universe to your whim and write self-absorbed fan-fic. I'm not even a big WH40K fan, and I'm repulsed...

85.114.54.105 13:55, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

That's it, I'm done. I through arguing with you about this. All you've been doing is going around this site complaining about people's articles. If you've got such a problem with it, take to an administrator, or don't come to the site. If I find any more of your negative comments on any of my talk pages, I'm tell an admin. Goodbye. Vivaporius 16:09, August 16, 2011 (UTC)